As Obama and Biden struggle to please their abortion-rights advocate base without offending the rest of the country, we can expect to hear a lot over the next two months about how electing a Democrat would reduce abortions far more than electing a Republican because Democrats reduce poverty and poverty causes abortion.
This approach first achieved major prominence in the 2004 election season, when Fuller Seminary ethicist Glen Stassen made the claim in an article published by the liberal Christian magazine Sojourners that abortions had gone done under Clinton but increased under Bush. His data proved to be incomplete and his claims false, but the timing was convenient, and religious liberals have seen citing it ever since. The problem is, there's very little correlation between the poverty rate and the abortion rate (though many of those who seek abortions are comparatively poor) and the percentage of pregnancies ending in abortion has decreased more rapidly under Bush than under Clinton.
Wednesday, August 27, 2008
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15 comments:
I won't stop till babies start!
electing a Democrat would reduce abortions far more than electing a Republican because Democrats reduce poverty and poverty causes abortion.
This makes me hope someone at any debates asks Obama or Biden if abortion is wrong. If they say yes (not likely), then their fan base freaks out. If they weasel, everyone sees them weasel. If they say no, then they set themselves up for the follow-up question, "If abortion isn't wrong, why bother reducing them?"
Abortion is a mortal sin. Period. Neither Biden, nor Pelosi - who is an empty-headed twit on her best day - seems to understand the risk to their immortal souls. It is not for us to judge the state of their souls, there is One who will do that with full information. But we don't have to VOTE for them and we can and should encourage others to refrain from voting for these two moral relativists.
And fighting poverty is specious reasoning at best. Encouraging people to get off their derrieres and go forth and actually work for a living and educate themselves enough so that they don't make stupid financial decisions - that reduces poverty. Government handouts haven't worked since their inception; socialism failed horribly in every country where it has been tried and it won't succeed here either.
It's time to start standing up for our nation's values and morality in an active fashion.
Absolutely typical. Biden is typical of your "Catholic" House politician. It drives me crazy.
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http://www.cafepress.com/bidenize
Check out my most recent post on Catholic Fire: Archbishop Chaput on FNC Cavuto Program on Pelosi, Biden
http://catholicfire.blogspot.com/2008/08/archbishop-chaput-on-fnc-cavuto-program.html
Let me get this straight: Voting for someone who will continue to involve the United States (and all US Catholics by extension) in an unjust war, with hundreds of "collateral damage" deaths, is OK?
The only position the Catholic Church and its members CAN take is to not vote, as voting for EITHER candidate will incur unjust deaths of one sort or another. What happened to the Catholic doctrine of just war???
"JUST WAR DOCTRINE TODAY
The most authoritative and up-to-date expression of just war doctrine is found in paragraph 2309 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It says:
The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:
* the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
* all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
* there must be serious prospects of success;
* the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.
These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the "just war" doctrine. The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good." [see http://www.catholic.com/library/Just_war_Doctrine_1.asp)
This war has not succeeded, and has caused horrible suffering of the Iraqui people. By the Catholic Church's own standards, it is an unjust war. Supporting John McCain--who is a fervent supporter of this war--breaks with Catholic doctrine.
[Note to Gayle: You do realize that the vast majority of the Gospel Message was about caring for one's fellows? The spirit of the early community and its martyrs are what changed Roman minds about the rightness and goodness of Christianity, because before Christ, the empire had been filled with pagans who sounded just like you in their writings (really, you should read them!) From the force of your opinion concerning those in need, if the Roman Christians had been like you, I am not sure Rome would have ever become Christian.]
Anonymous:
Caring for one fellows and social justice begin in the womb.
Honestly.
Voting for someone who will continue to involve the United States (and all US Catholics by extension) in an unjust war, with hundreds of "collateral damage" deaths, is OK?
. . . This war has not succeeded,
Anonymous, have you actually read a newspaper in the past four months? Major combat operations in Iraq are winding down, Americans have already agreed to start pulling troops, and the violence has almost - ALMOST - ground to a halt.
To put this - successful - war on the same level as abortion, or to say that a Catholic is guilty of going against Church teaching by supporting it, is a LIE.
Anonymous, have you actually read a newspaper in the past four months?
In my experience, these types are stuck in 2003.
Admittedly anecdotal, the fairly high number of women I knew in college who had abortions were white middle class and weren't footing their tuition bill.
Oh, and most regretted them too.
To Gayle Miller,
Can I assume from your comment that you take an active part in educating persons and/or encouraging people to get off their butt's and work. I also assume that as a dedicated follower of Jesus you visit the imprisoned, clothe the naked and feed the poor. I pray that you perform these works of faith in addition to encouraging people not to vote for Obama/Biden.
Anonymous is right. Religious conservatives get themselves so worked up over the most superficial examples of immorality in government. They whimper plentily about abortion and same-sex marriage, yet they ignore all the bigger issues and problems which are susceptible to the same reasoning.
The war in Iraq has resulted in over a hundred thousand deaths, many of which are innocent men, women, and children. Over four thousand of our young men and women have died in a war based on a false and deceptive premise. Is that morally justified? Perhaps they may reason it is because majority of the dead are of a different faith?
Take the death penalty, another example. Criminals they may be, but they are nonetheless children of God. How do you condone the state adopting the role as the bringer of death and the ultimate decider of human life? Isn't such a role unique to God and God alone?
Religious conservatives are destined to battle for their ultimate cause halfheartedly, because they are myopic thinkers and hypocrites who love to cherrypick what doctrines and tenants they would like to fight for or to ignore.
It is always amusing that people assume that because one is pro-life they automatically are ignoring all the other social issues. Well this past week in addition to educating people on the evils of abortion I have led the Rosary and visited with residents at the nursing home, spent several hours involved in cleaning up the new location for our crisis pregnancy center and discussed financial and other issues relating to the operation of the center in my position as a board member. I've spent about 10 hours on the computer writing press releases for various Church social justice ministries. I spoke with our pastor about starting a prison ministry program in our area. Well you get the idea.
Terry, your analysis is more than anecdotal. One of the busiest pregnancy centers in our area is in close proximity to 3 private colleges and universities. Further based on evidence many of the poor women who have abortions do so not because of their poverty per se but because being poor they often lack the knowledge or awareness of resources available to help them. For way too many of them all they hear is the message from Planned Parenthood. Many are homeless because their families kicked them out of the house for refusing an abortion. As someone involved in community education efforts I know firsthand there is much more to solving many of the social problems than simply throwing money after them.
Anonymous 1,
You quote the Church definition of just war theory. Very good I support it. But you ignore a key point. The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good." That wouild be the President of the U.S. Furthermore most of the loss of life has been the result of terrorists intent on disrupting the success of a legitemately elected government.
Anonymous 2,
You are either not Catholic or a terribly misinformed one. There are number of Church documents and statements from the Popes on which clearly teach that abortion, contraception and same-sex marriage are non-negotiable and intrinsically evil. The death penalty is not one of them. Jesus himself was put to death by the state and I don't ever recall anything in the Bible where he denies the authority of the state to put people to death. Even JPII said it was legitimate albeit unnecessary in our current time. That is vastly different from saying it is intrinsically evil like abortion.
The problem is: abortion will not go away whether R vs.W goes down. The issue will then go to the states. Biden and others are against abortion. They are for upholding the law. That is a difference. Catholics who think that birth control is intrinsically evil have no argument against abortion. I wonder how many abortions occur because women think birth control is sinful. The lowest abortion rate in the Western world is in Holland because they see abortion as wrong and birth control as right. Women in Africa die of AIDS transmitted by their undfaithful husbands. Why? Because the church (and others) teaches them that condoms are wrong. Unbelievable!
The problem is: abortion will not go away whether R vs.W goes down. The issue will then go to the states.
So what? There are lots of evil acts that won't go away because they are made illegal and enforced. But evil acts ought to be illegal because it is just and protects the common good.
Biden and others are against abortion.
Being "personally opposed" to abortion is not the same as saying it is wrong in and of itself. As I mentioned elsewhere, we need to keep hounding people who dive down the personally-opposed escape hatch until they answer this question because their credibility rides on it.
They are for upholding the law.
So were the people for upholding Dred Scott.
That is a difference.
A distinction. No difference.
Catholics who think that birth control is intrinsically evil have no argument against abortion.
Sure we do. Both are evil. And one can't do one evil to prevent another. That is the heresy of consequentialism.
I wonder how many abortions occur because women think birth control is sinful.
No one can really account for all possible bad acts arising from configurations of erroneous thinking. Best to just stick with Truth.
The lowest abortion rate in the Western world is in Holland because they see abortion as wrong and birth control as right.
So? Again, both are evil. This is the consequentialist heresy again.
Women in Africa die of AIDS transmitted by their undfaithful husbands. Why? Because the church (and others) teaches them that condoms are wrong. Unbelievable!
Actually (as I mentioned in another entry), Uganda's program stressing fidelity over condoms is reducing AIDS. Also, it is silly to believe that people who won't listen to the Church regarding adultery would suddenly listen to them on contraception. Once one sets foot on the path of evil, they are on their own.
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