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"Obviously, we have other important issues facing us this fall: the economy, the war in Iraq, immigration justice. But we can’t build a healthy society while ignoring the routine and very profitable legalized homicide that goes on every day against America’s unborn children. The right to life is foundational. Every other right depends on it. Efforts to reduce abortions, or to create alternatives to abortion, or to foster an environment where more women will choose to keep their unborn child, can have great merit—but not if they serve to cover over or distract from the brutality and fundamental injustice of abortion itself. We should remember that one of the crucial things that set early Christians apart from the pagan culture around them was their rejection of abortion and infanticide. Yet for thirty-five years I’ve watched prominent “pro-choice” Catholics justify themselves with the kind of moral and verbal gymnastics that should qualify as an Olympic event. All they’ve really done is capitulate to Roe v. Wade."
-- Archbishop Charles J. Chaput
Vote for Real Hope and Change
First Things August 19, 2008.
18 comments:
That's ironic considering McCain himself sought the endorsement of an anti-Catholic preacher, Rev Hagee.
That's ironic considering McCain himself sought the endorsement of an anti-Catholic preacher, Rev Hagee.
Not particularly ironic as McCain is not Catholic.
Or that McCain denounced Hagee when some of his comments came to light in the press. Now if Biden would only renounce his anti-Catholic pro-abortion views.
McCain never refused the endorsement of Hagee - in fact, he steadfastly sought it and saw it as coup when he earned it. The irony comes from the fact that his campaign is now trying to tell us what makes a good Catholic. It is further ironic when Palin's church informs us that Catholics cannot be saved unless they renounce their religion. I'm sorry but as Irish Catholic, I will not be taking lessons from McCains campaign.
"McCain never refused the endorsement of Hagee"
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/22/mccain.hagee/index.html
Guess you'll have to come up with some other anti-McCain talking point now Brendan. Care to link to your source that says Palin's church teaches that Catholics must renounce their religion? While you're at it, would you like to try to muster a defense of the pro-abort position of Obama-Biden? Speaking as another Irish Catholic, I am interested to see what sort of defense you come up with.
The irony comes from the fact that his campaign is now trying to tell us what makes a good Catholic. It is further ironic when Palin's church informs us that Catholics cannot be saved unless they renounce their religion. I'm sorry but as Irish Catholic, I will not be taking lessons from McCains campaign.
Last time I checked, the McCain campaign hadn't taken a position on the salvation of Catholics.
Insofar as for "telling us what it means to be a good Catholic", the McCain campaign is merely voicing their agreement with the U.S. Catholic Bishops and Pope Benedict that no Catholic worthy of the name would be caught supporting Roe v. Wade and abortion.
As an Irish Catholic, I expect you'd agree with the latter?
Donald you could start by reading Thomas Zimmerman - a former geneneral superintendnet of the Assemblies of God - pamplets. Actually read the letter he wrote when Kennedy was running for President to get his views on the dangers of Catholicism. As for Hagee, McCain shared a stage with him and refused to disassociate himself until his comments about the holocaust came to light. This was many months later and not one effort to reject the endorsement while his anti-Catholicism was well known. The Republican party has a long history of anti-Catholism. Many Irish Catholics know this; many don't, but it's a matter of learning a little history. As for abortion, Joe Biden states he is opposed to abortion and as a Catholic, who am I or you to judge him beyond that? I grew up in Ireland where abortion is banned. Young mothers take the boat to England and have abortions there. We therefore exported the problem. I'm sorry but that's not solving anything. Roe v Wade only serves one thing - as a vote getter for the Republican party. Once into office, the focus turns to war and the business of capitalism, not to mention destroying God's earth, the giver of all life. I'm sorry but solving the horror of abortion takes a little bit more effort than that.
A). Not all of us here are sold on McCain.
B). Everything Biden says and does regarding abortion demonstrates that his personal opposition to abortion is a meaningless platitude and no more relevant than being personally opposed the coaches' challenge rule.
C). Anti-Catholic is as anti-Catholic does.
D). Yes, people seeking to do evil and criminal things often flee to other places to do them. What of it? It may take time to close off all the places to flee, but not if we surrender to "well gee, it's bad, but that's the way it is." Frankly, it makes one wonder if they really think it's bad.
"Donald you could start by reading Thomas Zimmerman - a former geneneral superintendnet of the Assemblies of God - pamplets."
It will come as a vast surprise to you Brendan but Palin is no longer a member of the Assemblies of God and hasn't been for the past six years. Hearkening back to attacks on Kennedy back in 1960, is that the best you have? I have worked with Assemblies of God ministers on pro-life projects in my town and have gotten to know them as friends. If they are anti-Catholic bigots they certainly hid it well.
"As for Hagee, McCain shared a stage with him and refused to disassociate himself until his comments about the holocaust came to light. This was many months later"
Still feebly trying to paint McCain as an anti-Catholic bigot? Considering the fact that McCain and his wife were and are big supporters of the charities of the sisters of charity founded by Mother Teresa and adopted a child from one of her orphanages, good luck with that one!
"I'm sorry but solving the horror of abortion takes a little bit more effort than that."
True. I have been on the board of directors of the crisis pregnancy center in my county for over a decade. If you ever want to volunteer, crisis pregancy centers can use your help. However, if you think that electing as President the man who has stated that his first act as President would be to sign the Freedom of Choice Act which would codify Roe into federal statutory law would not be a major step back in the fight against abortion, then you are sadly mistaken. Face it Brendan, the fight against abortion just doesn't rank high on your priorities, and that is why you have no problem lending support to pro-abort politicians like Biden and Obama.
Never said McCain was an anti-Catholic bigot. He's associated with them and the Christian Right (a big percentage of Republican party) is legion with them. They therefore have no business telling Biden he is a bad Catholic. None of us have; it's not the Catholic way to judge (judge not, that you be not judged). Using pro-life to get votes at someone elses expense rings very hollow when you are not pro-life in all areas of life. Guess what, that means not killing animals for pleasure. It means not dropping cluster bombs on innocents. The Vatican was at the conference banning cluster bombs in Dublin; the current US gov boycotted it. I could go on and on. And apologies for going back to the 60s for an example of anti-Catholic sentiment. In my country we've dealt with it for centuries so that doesn't seem like that long ago. I also should point out that I admire some of McCain's policies such as those on immigration. Slan agus beannacht.
Well, I'll leave it to readers to decide if anti-Catholics are tunneling under people's houses. It is a simple thing to demonstrate that showing Biden's absurd abortion position does not qualify as the kind of judging refered to in the judge-not passage. First, no one is talking about stoning him, which is the context of the passage. Second, there is a big difference between calling someone a Bad Catholic and calling them a Wrong Catholic which brings me to the third, treating "judge not lest ye be judged" as a rubber-stamp for the dictatorship of relativism. It's not that complicated: Here is Church teaching, here is Biden's record. Notice the disparity.
Oops! My mistake. Judge not, lest ye be judged is not in the passage of the stoning.
But it doesn't change my point because it is almost always paired with the "Let him without sin cast the first stone passage" when people are trying to use the Bible as a manual for denying the nose on our faces.
Brendan,
I too come from a large Irish Catholic family (one one side -- Mexican Catholic on the other). My grandparents voted for JFK with a special pride. But the Democratic party turned its back on its historic Catholic voters thirty years ago, and most of us got the message and moved over to the GOP where we could avoid seeing our most deeply held beliefs ridiculed and spat upon.
If your disdain for Protestants is such that you can't understand that many of them are with us in trying to protect the Culture of Life, you're as blind as any Orange Man.
And honestly -- I'm big enough to feel just fine if some of our Evangelical brothers think I won't be saved unless I convert to their Church -- because come to that I don't think that they know the full Truth of Christ's message either. So we're even.
Darwin - for the record, I have no disdain for Protestants. I just happen to despise the Anti-Catholicism that prevails in the Christian Right that finds expression in folks who have a big influence on the Republican Party such as Rev Hagee and Bob Jones. I've love to know why Catholic republicans never make a big deal about this - it makes me wonder if they put their party before their religion. It was at Bob Jones university that Ian Paisley received much of his training in hatred for Catholics; the same "university" that the Republicans address every year. I will commend John McCain for breaking with many in the Republican Party by denouncing Bob Jones and George Bush for speaking there. But speaking of Orangemen, I dismay when I see him used "No Surrender" as his slogan. I know he is proud of his Ulster-Scots roots (indeed his ancestors fought for the Orangemen in the Battle of the Boyne), but in Ireland Catholics see the motto as sectarian and many have been murdered to that very chant. As for Catholics now seeing the Republicans Party as the pro-life party - well only if you are a la carte pro-life. It is not difficult to be pro-life in all ways - indeed it is what God expects of us - but a party that is against abortion and pro-cluster bombs is not pro-life. I am just calling it as it is - and I repeat I will not be told by the Republicans what it means to be a good Catholic.
"I am just calling it as it is - and I repeat I will not be told by the Republicans what it means to be a good Catholic"
Or the bishops for that matter apparently:
http://www.archkck.org/images/pdf/election.pdf
Really Brendan, the Church has opposed abortion for two millenia. Your problem isn't with the Republican party, it is with the teaching of your Church, because you wish to vote for candidates who view abortion as a sacrament.
Donald - Biden is personally opposed to abortion. End of story. The Catholic church also asks us to take other factors into account when voting. The Catholic Church is steadfastly against Cluster bombs; the current Republican party are not. The Catholic Church believes in helping the poor; the Republican Party has always been a party of the wealthy. The Catholic Church is against unjust wars; the current Republican party broke international law and started one. The Catholic Church is for the protection of our earth and reducing global warming; the current Republican party refused to sign an international agreement that would reduce global warming - because it would have disrupted the quality of life for the rich and big business. The church is clear that being pro-life means the beginning of life to the very end - and not using abortion as a slogan just to win votes. What's actually being done in the hear and now to be pro-life?
Donald - Biden is personally opposed to abortion. End of story.
Multiple times I and others have presented arguments on why being personally opposed is utterly meaningless and no one as of yet has overthrown them.
The Catholic church also asks us to take other factors into account when voting.
Yes, with the understanding that intrisic evils outweigh all of them.
The Catholic Church is steadfastly against Cluster bombs; the current Republican party are not.
Err no. Bishops have called for their ban in treaties, which is fine, but hardly binding teaching. And cluster bomb use is not intrinsicly evil, even though I agree there are very few circumstances that would make their use acceptable.
The Catholic Church believes in helping the poor; the Republican Party has always been a party of the wealthy.
Helping the poor does not equal support for government leftist entitlements. This is just canned partisan talking points.
The Catholic Church is against unjust wars; the current Republican party broke international law and started one.
Ok, so don't vote for McCain. It just don't justify voting for Obama. Frankly, I don't see any reason someone as unprincipled as Obama won't get us entangled in an unjust war. This is all guesswork of course, which is silly when one has intrinsic evils staring them in the face being formally supported.
The Catholic Church is for the protection of our earth and reducing global warming; the current Republican party refused to sign an international agreement that would reduce global warming - because it would have disrupted the quality of life for the rich and big business.
The Church does not bind Catholics to be for this or that policy on the environment. It doesn't do our thinking for us. It is perfectly acceptable to be in favor of seeking non-government intruding methods of protecting the environment.
The church is clear that being pro-life means the beginning of life to the very end - and not using abortion as a slogan just to win votes.
All this does is perhaps make a vote for McCain problematic. VERY problematic in my opinion. But, Obama is a formal supporter of abortion. Ain't no way no how.
What's actually being done in the hear and now to be pro-life?
Anything morally acceptable that we can.
Bottom line: I think voting for McCain is a bad idea. Voting for Obama is flat out absurd.
Fact:
A third party candidate is NOT going to win this election.
Fact:
If Obama wins, he will be the most radical, pro-abortion president in the history of our nation --(he promises sinage of the Freedom of (so-called) "Choice" act as his first official action.
Fact:
McCain is a pro-life candidate with a pro-life runningmate in a pro-life (as per its platform) party.
Fact:
To abstain from voting or to vote for a third party candidate helps Obama more than anyone else.
PLEASE don't throw away your vote by abstaining from voting or casting the ballot in the direction of someone who has NO CHANCE of winning.
Please prayerfully consider voting for McCain. God bless,
A CATHOLIC Mom for McCain :)
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